Sun-Spots Digest, v6n143
William LeFebvre
Sun-Spots-Request at RICE.EDU
Tue Jul 19 12:29:32 AEST 1988
SUN-SPOTS DIGEST Monday, 18 July 1988 Volume 6 : Issue 143
Today's Topics:
Re: file `which foo` fails on 3.4/3.5
Re: file `which foo` fails on 3.4/3.5
SunOS source licenses (academic)
login problem when NFS server crashes (2)
Level 2 interrupt problems (3/280)
WANTED: Expert System Software/Hardware Info
NCAR graphics package for the SUN?
Differences between SunOS 3.2 and 4.0?
backup software for Suns?
UofMaryland television courses: User Interface Strategies '88
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 88 10:06:59 +0100
From: sunuk!sunnl!wizard!dirk at sun.com (Dirk Mansvelder-Sun Nederland TSE)
Subject: Re: file `which foo` fails on 3.4/3.5
Mike,
It all seems te work over here. Are you sure you did not mix up the quote
characters ?
file 'which which' gives:
which which: No such file or directory
while file `which which` gives:
/usr/ucb/which: executable c-shell script
Regards,
Dirk Mansvelder
Sun Nederland
(e-mail: dirk at NL.sun.com, ..!sun!sunuk!sunnl!dirk)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 88 04:14:48 -0700
From: Don Kark <wiley!don at uunet.uu.net>
Subject: Re: file `which foo` fails on 3.4/3.5
> Anyone know why, on SunOS 3.4 and 3.5, I get
> csh% file `which which`
> /usr/ucb/which: No such file or directory
> csh% file /usr/ucb/which
> /usr/ucb/which: executable c-shell script
I've seen this problem occur when output is generated in the .cshrc
startup file. In my case it had to do with redefining "cd" to be:
chdir \!* ; set prompt="$LOG_MACH.$USER ( \! ): "; echo -n "]l$cwd\"
Which puts the current directory on the label of the suntools window by
echoing the escape sequence to be interpreted by the window <escape seq>.
I later did a "cd ." in the .cshrc file.
At this point your problem showed up. It turns out that since "which"
sources the .cshrc file, any output generated in your .cshrc becomes part
of the argument to "file" (even escape sequences). So what "file" sees is
an argument "<escape seq>/usr/ucb/which", which is not a valid file.
Unfortunately you won't see the complaint correctly because the window
interprets the escape sequence! To find the culprit, do an:
echo `which which` | od -c
It may not always be obvious (perhaps the result of alias/program
executions in your .cshrc). I never understood why I never noticed it
under 3.2; I always thought I must have introduced the error after going
to 3.4.
-- Don
Don Kark {cit-vax,trwrb,uunet}!wiley!don
TRW Inc. wiley!don at csvax.caltech.edu
Redondo Beach, CA don at wiley.uucp
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 88 21:53:45 GMT
From: "P. Ashton" <paul at cantuar.uucp>
Subject: SunOS source licenses (academic)
We have been in the process of attempting to get a source license
(academic-type) for Sun OS for some time now, but things have been
progressing very slowly (there's a lot of intermediate layers between us
in New Zealand, and people that can answer questions, and make the
decisions in the US). What I'd like to know is what flavour of AT&T source
license do we need to get a Sun OS source license? We have System III and
32V source licenses from AT&T, which are sufficient for the 4.2 and 4.3
BSD source licences we have (as SunOS was based on 4.2 BSD I figured that
if we had sufficient AT&T source licenses to get 4.2 BSD source, then we
would have sufficient AT&T source licences to get Sun OS source).
We included a copy of our System III license agreement with our
application, but I've been unable to ascertain from Sun whether this is
sufficient, (we deal with an NZ distributor, who deal with Sun Australia,
....) so I'm asking the net so that if we do need a System V license we
can set the wheels in motion to get a System V license. Anyone who has a
SunOS source license, or who works for Sun able to shed any light on
this?
Paul Ashton,
from cantuar - the southern most UUCP site.
Internet(ish): paul at cantuar.{uucp,nz} JANET/SPEARNET: p.ashton at nz.ac.canty
UUCP: ...!{watmath,munnari,mcvax,...!uunet!vuwcomp}!cantuar!paul
NZ Telecom: Office: +64 3 667 001 x6350
NZ Post: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 88 12:09:13 +0200
From: mcvax!tnosoes!tom at uunet.uu.net (Tom Vijlbrief)
Subject: login problem when NFS server crashes (1)
Hallo sun-spots readers,
We have a 3/160 server which mounts a NFS filesystem from a 3/260 server.
Both are running SunOs 3.5, Yellow Pages and the mount is 'soft'.
When the 3/260 crashes allmost all is fine, (programs generate 'NFS
getattr failed for server sunray: RPC: Timed out' messages), but a login
will take about a whole minute, before the shell starts to read .login !
The shell needs nothing from the crashed 3/260 server and does not display
any errors... Only root is able to login fast. Killing ypbind does not
result in any improvement, so it seems not to be a YP problem.
What is happening here? (Umounting the NFS-filesystem fixes the problem
but I don't think this would be needed).
Thanks for any info!
Tom
Tom Vijlbrief
TNO Institute for Perception
P.O. Box 23 Phone: +31 34 63 62 77
3769 DE Soesterberg E-mail: tnosoes!tom at mcvax.cwi.nl
The Netherlands or: uunet!mcvax!tnosoes!tom
[[ This was discussed earlier this year. See v6n73. Also see the next
message. This is important and complicated enough to warrant a full blown
response. --wnl ]]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 88 13:12:32 CDT
From: William LeFebvre <phil at Rice.edu>
Subject: login problem when NFS server crashes (2)
This is such a subtle but serious problem that I will briefly explain it
and the workaround here. In order to understand what is causing the
problem, we need to know a little bit about how directories are scanned,
how file names appear in a directory, and how "pwd" does its job.
Last things first. The command "pwd" determines the name of the current
directory by calling the library function "getwd". "Getwd" works by
looping through the following steps until the root directory ("/") is
found: stat "." to determine the inumber (or inode number); open ".." and
read each entry until you find the same inumber; store the corresponding
name and repeat. Unfortunately, you also have to watch for points where
you cross file systems. For this reason, "getwd" stats every file it
finds in ".." until it finds the right inumber. This is where the problem
lies. If one of those files corresponds to an NFS file system on a downed
server, the stat will hang. Guess what the c-shell does when you first
start it up! Calls "getwd" to set the variable "cwd".
So, if you do what most people do and put all your NFS partitions in "/",
then you *might* hang when one of those servers goes down. Remember that
file names do not appear in a directory in any readily discernible order.
"ls" sorts them for you to make life easier on you. But they do not
necessarily appear in the directory in sorted order. If you would like to
see the true order in which the file names appear, use "ls -f dir". If
a user's home directory is within directory X, then any NFS file system
server before X in that list will cause login problems for that user when
the server is down.
So how do you work around the problem? In some cases, you cannot. In our
particular environment, many of the system's users have all their files
on the same machine. The other NFS servers contain files for various
projects, the TeX library, sources for programs in /usr/local, etc. I was
able to solve the problem for most of the users by making sure that the
directory for their file system appeared before any other NFS file systems
in "/". This is not as easy to do as I thought it would be. The
positioning in a directory that a file is given is largely dependent on
the file name's length. Careful playing with "mv", "rmdir" and "mkdir"
should do the trick. Observe the results with "ls -f ." But you must do
this with *no* file systems mounted. You can even rename a mount point if
a file system is mounted there.
Well, I hope this helps someone.
William LeFebvre
Sun-Spots moderator
Department of Computer Science
Rice University
<phil at Rice.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 88 01:41:44 CDT
From: mkkam at wael.cs.uh.edu (Man-Kai Kam)
Subject: Level 2 interrupt problems (3/280)
I configured the kernel to enable pc0 (SUN IPC) on a 3/280 which is a
server. Then I remotely access it from a 3/50 client by running pctool.
Right after that, the 3/280 console keeps printing "Level 2 interrupt",
and the machine is so busy servicing the interrupts that it virtually
halts. I can't try to run pctool locally because the 280 does not have a
bitmap console (we use a vt220 as the console). Another problem is that
IPC doesn't seem to like subnetting! Anyone has any hints? Please let me
know. Thank you.
Francis Kam Computer Science Department
Internet: mkkam at sun1.cs.uh.edu University of Houston
CSNET: mkkam at houston.csnet 4800 Calhoun
Phone: (713)749-1748 Houston, TX 77004.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 88 10:01:16 EDT
From: apollo at ecf.toronto.edu (Vince Pugliese)
Subject: WANTED: Expert System Software/Hardware Info
I am posting this for a friend who does not have net access. Direct
correspondence to his physical address is preferred though "feelers" can
be sent to me and I will relay. Thanks in advance.
____________________
Our company is involved in the development of an autonomous operations
planner for space station applications using AI techniques (specifically
Expert Systems). We are currently investigating the purchasing of
software/hardware to accomplish this task. We are looking at ES Shells as
well as the possibility of using various AI languages to write our own ES.
For those companies viewing this request, product information can be sent
to us at the address below. We are also interested in a list of
developers/manufacturers, if anyone has one. Any useful information would
be appreciated.
Wayne Sincarsin
Dynacon Enterprises Limited
5050 Dufferin St.
Suite 200
Downsview, Ontario
Canada, M3H 5T5
(416) 667-0505
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 88 10:57:00 EDT
From: brun at nrl-lcp.arpa
Subject: NCAR graphics package for the SUN?
Most of the numerical codes we develop here use the NCAR graphics package
to display their results. Recently we acquired a number of Sun
workstations, and we are interested in learning if the NCAR package has
been ported to the Sun. Has anyone run across it, and know where (if it
exists) to find it? Any information would be appreciated.
Todd Brun
BRUN at NRL_LCP.ARPA
Laboratory of Computational Physics and Fluid Dynamics
Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, D.C.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 88 04:16:16 GMT
From: roland at wheaties.ai.mit.edu (Roland McGrath)
Subject: Differences between SunOS 3.2 and 4.0?
Can someone give me a list of differences between SunOS 3.2 and 4.0?
It appears that 4.0 is based on 4.3 BSD and SVr3.1 rather than 4.2 BSD and
SVr2.0, but I don't know if that's true or what other differences there
are.
If something is taken from 4.3 BSD, just "like 4.3" is sufficient, but I
don't know anything about System V.
Please mail responses to roland at wheaties.ai.mit.edd.
Thanks.
Roland McGrath
roland at wheaties.ai.mit.edu, mit-eddie!wheaties.ai.mit.edu!roland
[[ You're kidding, right? This is a joke, right? I think the answer
would fill up a book! Doesn't Sun have a document that describes the
major differences? 4.0 isn't just "based on SVr3", rather it is a
peculiar merging of BSD and SV (System V). It is a product of the
standardization effort that AT&T and Sun are jointly undertaking (the same
effort that is being pretty much boycotted by just about all the other
computer manufacturers). --wnl ]]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 88 11:52:10 EDT
From: dms at wheaties.ai.mit.edu (David M Siegel)
Subject: backup software for Suns?
We are interested in purchasing a replacement for the Sun dump program. We
feel that dump is inadequate for several reasons, including:
1) tapes lack labels (would like ANSI labels)
2) single structures must go on one tape
3) poor error recovery
4) not automatic enough
5) ...
I can't believe that Sun didn't rework dump under OS 4.0. If they are
interested in putting together a serious operating system, the
backup/restore system must be bullet-proof.
These problems are exacerbated when using higher density media, like the
Exabyte unit. With this device it should be possible to do an unattended
incremental backup of very large filesystems given the proper dump
technology. With Sun's current dump, it's all but impossible to do this
reliably.
It would also be nice to have file migration, but that's another story.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 88 18:06:27 EDT
From: Ben Shneiderman <ben at mimsy.umd.edu>
Subject: UofMaryland television courses: User Interface Strategies '88
Would your circulate this notice...thanks...Ben Shneiderman
____________________
User Interface Strategies '88
A two-day national satellite TV course October 5 and 12, 1988
Organized by Ben Shneiderman, University of Maryland
Presenting
Thomas Malone, MIT
Donald Norman, University of California, San Diego
James Foley, George Washington University
This course is produced by the University of Maryland Instructional
Television (ITV) System and broadcast nationwide at more than 200 sites on
the AMCEE/NTU (National Technological University) Satellite Network. For
a copy of the full brochure and information on attending at an AMCEE site
in your area or at an ITV site in the Washington, DC area, call the
University of Maryland ITV office at (301) 454-8955. You may consider
arranging a private showing as a special event for your organization,
university, or company.
Overview: New user interfaces ideas have engaged many researchers,
designers, programmers, and users in the past year. These four leaders of
the field offer their perspectives on why the user interface is a central
focus for expanding the application of computers. Each will offer his
vision and suggest exciting opportunities for next year's developments.
Demonstrations, new software tools, guiding principles, emerging theories,
and empirical results will be presented.
Intended audience: User interface designers, programmers, software
engineers, human factors specialists, managers of computer, information,
and communications projects, trainers, etc.
---- October 5, 1988 ----
Ben Shneiderman, University of Maryland
Lecture 1: INTRODUCTION: User Interfaces Strategies
Lecture 2: HYPERTEXT: Hype or Help?
Thomas W. Malone, MIT
Lecture 3: COMPUTER-SUPPORTED COOPERATIVE WORK:
Using information technology for coordination
Lecture 4: COMPUTER-SUPPORTED COOPERATIVE WORK:
Design principles and applications
Discussion Hour
---- October 12, 1988 ----
Donald A. Norman, University of California, San Diego
Lecture 5: USER CENTERED SYSTEM DESIGN:
Emphasizing usability and understandability
Lecture 6: Practical principles for designers
Jim Foley, George Washington University
Lecture 7: Software tools for designing and implementing user-computer
interfaces
Lecture 8: User Interface Management Systems (UIMSs)
Discussion Hour
------------------------------
End of SUN-Spots Digest
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