A/UX 2.0.1 questions

[Robert K Shull]

In article <1991Mar17.075747.1576 at panix.uucp> alexis at panix.uucp (Alexis Rosen) writes:
>In article <50137 at apple.Apple.COM> ksand at Apple.COM (Kent Sandvik) writes:
>> alexis at panix.uucp (Alexis Rosen) writes:
>>A couple of days ago I understood why we won't support TPV drives
>>with HD Setup. I had this problem with a LaCie drive, where using
>>the Silverlining partition program cured the hard disk. Because 
>>the Silverlining program *programmed* the Hard disk not to send
>>obscure SCSI command calls that the generic A/UX dev. driver
>>filters out. 
>>
>>The reason for filtering is simple - the UNIX kernel should not die
>>suddenly [while MacOS allows this, I hope this will be fixed soon
>>under MacOS as well].
>
>You're implying that LaCie can write formatters better than any Apple
>programmers. This is certainly historically true, but there's no reason
>it has to stay this way.

I'd like to point out that LaCie DOES NOT guarantee that their drivers
work with third party drives. In fact, they specifically mention that
their software is made to work with their drives, and might fail on
others. They'll sell the software to you, and assume you know what you're
doing and will take the risk.
By the way, if you want an example of a drive that doesn't work with
Silverlining, try the old Rodime 102. My Mac would crash everytime
the formatter found a bad sector and tried to map it out. One time
to the point where I got the pretty tones and the sad mac every
time I turned on the machine, BEFORE the floppy was checked. Fun with
an internal drive.

>>Anyway, if a customer reads that HD Setup can partition *any* 
>>TPV hard disk, and tries with HD Setup, which can't possibly know
>>all the possible firmware programming setups and firmware control
>>codes for every TPV hard disk drive, then....
>>
>>In the worst case he gets angry, and if he's rich and is really mad
>>he will sue Apple - and court cases are not fun.
 
>This is a straw man. You don't have to _guarantee_ anything. But you _could_

I don't know. In the minds of most users, if it even TRIES to format the
drive, that means that Apple supports it. And if it doesn't work, it's
Apple's fault. And, as I've heard again and again, PERCEPTION is far more
important than REALITY. It's not reality that sells equipment, it's
perception. Especially "first impression". We have enthusiasts here who
support everything from Apollo to Zenith, usually because of which
salesman got hold of them first.
Plugging in your hard drive, having the formatter crank away on it for
thirty minutes or so, then lock up your machine completely is not a good
"first impression". Having it kill your machine to the point where you
have to take it back to the dealer is not a good "first impression".

>list the drives it did work with- if you tested with drives from Seagate,
>Quantum, Maxtor, Conners, and Miniscribe, you'd make 95%+ of your potential

tested? which drives? which hardware revisions? which ROM revisions?
what hardware jumpering? what settings on the error page?

>It is not their responsibility to establish a SCSI 1.1 standard with special
>Apple commands. It is *your* responsibility, as a vendor trying to sell a
>product into a crowded marketplace, to make your product as convenient as
>is possible.

What else should Apple provide support/drivers for? Third party tape drives?
Scanners? Printers? Monitors and display cards? Slide makers? Interface
boards?

>A few days ago I bought a Seagate/Imprimis Elite 1300MB disk. (And it is
>*FAST!*) I hooked it up to an RS/6000, and with SMIT I had it up and running
>in minutes. The Elite didn't even exist when this IBM system was built.

Congratulations. You happened to find a combination of machine and drive
that actually worked. Don't assume that that means EVERY machine and EVERY
drive will work together.

We've gotten a nice lesson in SCSI standards over the last few weeks. We
bought five Fujitsu 650 meg drives. The work fine on the Mac. They work fine
on the RS/6000. They completely lock up the SCSI bus on a DEC 5000. They
wait 30 minutes, THEN lock up the SCSI bus on a 386 running Banyan Vines.

>Alexis Rosen
	Robert Shull
-- 
Robert K. Shull
rob at uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu				chinet!uokmax!rob