shell architecture (to glob or not to glob)

[Richard Neitzel]

In article <4584 at lib.tmc.edu>, jmaynard at thesis1.hsch.utexas.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
|> Unix is at the far end of the scale: it's actively user-hostile. Power to
|> the programmer means incomprehensibility to the user. I wouldn't even
|> consider handing a user a raw $ or % prompt, X terminal or not. It's simply
|> too daunting. Unix' terseness is a win for a programmer, but a major loss
|> for a user. It took me two years of running a Unix system at home before I
|> got comfortable with it, and I'm a systems programmer by trade. How long
|> does it take a user?
|> 
|> >technoignorami (tek'no-ig'no-ram`i) a group of individuals that are constantly
|> >found to be saying things like "Well, it works on my DOS machine ..."
|> 
|> The difference is, as another said, that Unix types are generally programmers,
|> while DOS users are getting real work done. Someone who says something like
|> that deserves support, not contempt. I hope you don't display that attitude
|> to _your_ users.
Care to back that up with any facts? Our division has ~22 people, all but 3 are 
engineers, scientists or technicans. The only use DOS machine get any more are as
terminals and for running specialized peripherals like prom burners. All other work 
is done under UNIX. I cannot think of ANY OS or environment that is not 
incomprehensibile to a novice. That's what manuals and training are for. Perhaps you 
had better look at what you are providing your users in the way of support. In
fact I would suggest that this attitude of the poor user being unable to understand
system XYZ is really a red herring. What is really the issue is the unwillingness
of support personnel to move into an unfamilar environment. One covers one's
tracks by saying "Oh, you are too ignorant and incapable of learning to run UNIX
dear end user." Now that's contempt! Our attitude is that if you need to use a tool,
we'll provide all the support needed to get people going, but we know you're 
capable of learning it. Guess what - our users do not find UNIX difficult or unwieldy,
especially compared to their prior experiences with OSs (mainly VMS and DOS). 
We have one user who is running a 2 system subdomain for CAD work. He's doing all the
system administration work - and he learned it all in about 6 months. BTW, I'm 
amazed that it took two years for someone to become comfortable with any system. 
Having moved from CPM to RSX to VMS to UNIX, I've never found it took more then about 
2 months to be comfortable and about 6 months till I was able to start hacking at 
the kernel. If it takes a long time for one to get comfortable, perhaps that person 
ought to determine if a) they are not really using the new system often enough or
b) they have a thick hide of prejudices, which the new system violate. 

-- 
Richard Neitzel thor at thor.atd.ucar.edu	     	Torren med sitt skjegg
National Center For Atmospheric Research	lokkar borni under sole-vegg
Box 3000 Boulder, CO 80307-3000			Gjo'i med sitt shinn
303-497-2057					jagar borni inn.